Monthly Archives: June 2009

The Burning Bosom

Yesterday I blogged about a theme that seems to always pop up when I’m talking with Mormons: that Mormonism and Christianity are the same. Sure, there are some differences, but Mormonism is ultimately a form of Christianity just like the Baptist denomination is a form of Christianity.

I don’t buy that line.

Here’s another issue that comes up: the “burning heart.”  Ask an LDSer, “how do you know that the LDS faith is true?” or “how can I know?” and he’ll reply that if you read the Book of Mormon and pray with a sincere heart, that God will reveal the truth to you via a “burning heart.”   The burning heart boils down to an intense feeling or conviction that Joseph Smith is a true prophet.  You’ll just know.bookofmormon

My question is this: how is this adequate evidence for the truth of the Book of Mormon in light of the fact that people have similar reasons (a strong conviction, in other words) for rejecting it?

For Christians, the Holy Spirit gives witness to the heart that God is our (non-literal, or spiritual…He didn’t literally physically sire us) Father a la Romans 8, so I understand the possibility of having such a testimony.  The thing is, though, is that for Christians, this witness is not in a vacuum–I can give several objective lines of evidence to substantiate the subjective witness.  The subjective testimony isn’t the only leg I have to stand on.

Also, when I talk to others about Jesus, my subjective testimony is completely unconvincing to them.  I must give reasons and evidence that they can access, which I am able to do.

But when pressed, Mormon missionaries have shied away from giving that, preferring instead to focus on the “burning heart.”  I wonder why.

When you have competing “burning bosoms,” both can’t be valid.  You have to go to an objective source to substantiate between the two.  I wonder why I don’t see more of this in the LDS missionary approach.

Check out the following related posts:

Walking Around with our Pants Around our Ankles

My Story

Bosom buddies, for all you 80's freaks

Bosom buddies, for all you 80's freaks

Epic Fail: Planned Parenthood Shows its True Colors…Again

Another video of a Planned Parenthood employee covering up allegations of sexual abuse…

Pro-lifer Lila Rose, 20 years old, went to a PP clinic in Alabama, posed as a 14 year old girl who became pregnant by her 31 year old boyfriend.  When Rose asks for an abortion, the PP worker she talks with says she needs parental consent.  Ok, so far so good…that’s a better start than the other clinics that have been caught willing to break the law.

But then Rose balks, saying her parents can’t know.  She reveals the reason: her boyfriend is 31.  Alabama state law requires health care officials to disclose cases of adult-child sex to the proper authorities.  The PP worker assures Rose, “as long as you consented to having sex with him, there’s nothing we can truly do about that.”

PPPPHHTTTT!!!

Wait, it gets better.  Tanisha, the PP worker, then proceeds to tell Rose that the clinic manager, Dr. Desiree Bates, “sometimes bends the rules a little bit…whatever you say stays within these walls…we can’t disclose any information to anybody.”

Epic…Fail.  The law says otherwise.  Ed Morrissey:

In this case, the clinic worker seems more interested in passing the buck to her boss rather than make a decision herself. Unlike other PP workers, Tanisha insists on having parental consent for the abortion — but then Tanisha tries helping what she thinks is a 14-year-old evade that requirement by seeing if she has an older sister who can pose as her mother. She then tells Lila that HIPAA requirements keep them from saying anything about the felonious relationship to anyone else, but that’s clearly not true, and Planned Parenthood knows better.

Dang!   How many times is that now?  It seems like there’s an incidence coming out just about every month now!

Jeez Louise–how stupid can you get?  I mean, forget, just for a moment, the obvious wickedness of failing to protect a child by turning a blind eye to statutory rape.  That’s the biggest issue, but put that to the side for a sec.  Wouldn’t you think, just as a matter of CYA, that PP would smarten up?  No–they get snookered by this gal every…single…time.  LaShawn Barber has blogged on the many other times the same thing has happened in other clinics.

Personally, I don’t mind that PP hasn’t smartened up.  It just gives folks like Rose more opportunity to expose PP’s true colors.  They are more interested in the almighty dollar than they are protecting young girls.  They’ll use the “we’re all about women” line to justify their cause, but actions like this speak louder than words.

Wake up, folks.  This is who many of your tax dollars go to.

I absolutely love PP’s reaction to these undercover vids in the past.   Barber notes,

U.S. News and World Report blogger Bonnie Erbe wants to know why the pro-life crusader hasn’t been arrested for trespassing or fraud, and – get this – Planned Parenthood has posted Lila Rose’s picture so its disgraceful workers will be on the alert.

Barber continues,

#1: On the alert for what? As long as PP reports statutory rapes and stops encouraging teenagers to lie about it, what difference does it make who comes into the mill? Whether a sting operation or the real deal, as long as PP workers do what they’re required to do by law (and common decency, for crying out loud), what’s the problem? Unless they plan on continuing the “you rape ‘em, we muzzle ‘em” policy.

#2 – Instead of posting Lila Rose’s face on the wall, how about posting pics of the women who failed to report the rapes, alerting girls and women seeking “services” to stay clear of workers who’ll not only allow abuse to continue, but advise them to keep their mouths shut, too?

Right on target.

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Be sure to check out the following related post:

Sober Thoughts on Torture

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Also, check out my other posts on abortion

Shape Shifter (Updated)

Update: Ed Morrissey has some explanation of the difference between a coup and a military impeachment. Though it might be still a supportable action, he calls it a coup nonetheless.

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It took Obama a looooong time to stand with the rest of the free world in condeming the injustice of the Iran elections and the abuses of its citizens in the wake of protests , but he quickly hopped to more direct intervention in Honduras this week when its military staged a coup to depose of Honduran president Zelaya, taking a stand not with the rest of the free world, but with fellas like Hugo Chavez and…Fidel Castro.

The Washington Times has the summary:

In an unusual concurrence of views, the Obama administration and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said they still recognized Mr. Zelaya as Honduras’ president. The State Department called the events an “attempted coup” and urged Mr. Zelaya’s “return and restoration of democratic order.”

U.S. officials said they were engaged in multinational efforts to resolve the crisis, through the Organization of American States and European allies. At the same time, Washington wants a resolution “free from external influence and interference,” a senior official told reporters during a conference call organized by the State Department.

The official, who spoke on the condition that he not be named, said the U.S. Embassy in Honduras was “consistently and almost constantly engaged in the last several weeks working with partners” and that U.S. officials were “in contact with all Honduran institutions, including the military.” However, the military stopped taking the embassy’s calls since the coup attempt, the official said.

The WSJ has more:

The Obama administration and members of the Organization of American States had worked for weeks to try to avert any moves to overthrow President Zelaya, said senior U.S. officials. Washington’s ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, sought to facilitate a dialogue between the president’s office, the Honduran parliament and the military.

The efforts accelerated over the weekend, as Washington grew increasingly alarmed. “The players decided, in the end, not to listen to our message,” said one U.S. official involved in the diplomacy. On Sunday, the U.S. embassy here tried repeatedly to contact the Honduran military directly, but was rebuffed. Washington called the removal of President Zelaya a coup and said it wouldn’t recognize any other leader.

The U.S. stand was unpopular with Honduran deputies. One congressman, Toribio Aguilera, got prolonged applause from his colleagues when he urged the U.S. ambassador to reconsider. Mr. Aguilera said the U.S. didn’t understand the danger that Mr. Zelaya and his friendships with Mr. Chavez and Cuba’s Fidel Castro posed.

On the surface, things look fair. I mean, perhaps there were good reasons that Obama interfered in Honduras but was reluctant to even utter strong words with Iran. After all, a democratic government like the U.S just can’t stand idly by during a military coup of an elected official. But the devil, as they say, is in the details. Things begin to look pretty fishy when you probe further. Ed Morrissey comments:

Zelaya was violating his country’s constitution with his referendum that would have, Chavez-style, repealed term limits on the presidency. The Honduras Supreme Court ruled the referendum illegal, and the military refused to distribute the ballots. Instead of backing down, Zelaya fired the head of the military, which precipitated the ouster.

Clearly, democracies cannot abide armed overthrow of elected governments, but that presumes that the government acts within the rule of law. Zelaya had no intention of doing so, and his flagrant violations and attempt to accrue personal power made that crystal clear. Zelaya had begun seizing dictatorial powers, and the military responded by arresting him. The military then handed power back to the legislature rather than keeping it for themselves, which makes this less of a coup and more of a military impeachment.

In other words, Zelaya was blatantly abusing his power, and this prompted the military to arrest him. Rick Moran puts his finger on key questions:

Further, the military was acting under the orders of the Honduran Supreme Court although they apparently exceeded their authority by whisking him away to Venezuela. And finally, it was Zelaya’s actions in violating the constitution, ignoring a ruling by the Supreme Court that any referendum be put on would be illegal, and the universal belief in Congress, the military, and much of the populace that eventually, he would little more than a stand in for Chavez if he was allowed to carry out his illegal referendum that sealed Zelaya’s fate.

And yet our president, acting contrary to American interests, chose the route of least resistance and condemned what many Hondurans believe was a restoration of constitutional order. The president will find himself in familiar territory with this condemnation – Castro, Ortega, and other Latin American leftist thugs also condemned the coup. Maybe someone could look it up but when was the last time we were on the same side with Cuba on any international issue?

Folks, this is yet another red flag about this president. I’m hoping that people will start to take notice. I’m not holding my breath.

I’m not railing against Obama’s policy on the Iran election. Different post, different time. I think his eventual words, even though they came late, were quite appropriate. You can see a video here:

But his decision to intervene in Honduras has left me scratching my head. If any intervention or condenmnation was called for, I’d think it would sway in the other direction, assisting the Honduran congress, supreme court, and people to restore constitutional order.

And I also am left wondering about the glaring disparity of reactions. I have the same question Morissey has:

Why did Obama decide to intervene on behalf of a “president” obviously abusing his power and to prevent the military from removing him once he started acting like a dictator? He didn’t put nearly that much effort into assisting Iranians who have gone into the streets and died to protest the mullahcracy that oppresses them.

It is very telling that the Obama administration worked hard to step in on the wrong side of democracy in Honduras, but was very, very reluctant to even take a verbal stand in Iran, where people were getting beaten and shot by a wicked government. Maybe some detail will surface in the next few days such that I will see the wisdom in his actions. But I’m not holding my breath on that either. It’s pretty damning when the only guys you are “standing” with are fellas like Chavez and Castro.

H/T: Hotair

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Conversing with Mormons

“Christianity and Mormonism are basically the same.  Sure, there are a few differences, but if I, a Mormon, were to go into a Christian church, I would fully agree with just about everything I heard there.”

Ever heard something like that when talking with LDS (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a.k.a Mormons) church members?  I have heard that sentiment in just about every conversation I’ve ever had with LDS folks.  Without fail, it comes up quickly, and almost every time the LDS person I’m talking with is quick to identify the Mormon faith as Christian.

I had two conversations with Mormons last week that followed this pattern.

I often run into LDS church members.  I always enjoy their company, for they are almost always eager to do good, and we have a lot in common as to our views on morality.  Such was the case this past week.

A little background: last week I was working as a counselor at a wrestling camp in Riverside, CA.  Wrestlers and coaches from all over the country came to, well, wrestle for a week.  The schedule, almost literally, was: wake up, eat, wrestle, eat, wrestle, eat, wrestle, go to bed.  Go, go, go, with very little down time.  There wasn’t much time for conversation, but despite the busyness I managed to get into some spiritual conversations with some of the staff who were LDS.

Within moments, both folks confidently expressed the thought I led with above: Mormonism is Christian.  Any differences are tantamount to denominational differences within the Christian religion.

I’ve never been able to buy this.  Whenever someone expresses that thought, I ask: why, then, do Mormon missionaries regularly evangelize other devout Christians?  For the record, I don’t have a problem with evangelization.  After all, I evangelize and try to persuade others to bend the knee to Christ.  Christ commands it and did it himself in the Bible.

religionfacts.com

religionfacts.com

My contention is that it seems strange for Mormons to evangelize folks like me if Mormonism is Christian.  Isn’t it odd for Christians to evangelize other Christians?  After all, I don’t go next door to my friendly neighborhood baptists and try to persuade them like they are non-believers.  I might disagree with some of their theological doctrines and have passionate debate with them on those points, but I don’t treat them like they are outside the faith.

Yet, if Mormonism is essentially Christian, then that is what Mormon missionaries do!  Every time Mormon missionaries come to my door and I express my Christian convictions to them, they proceed to evangelize as if I am a non-believer.  They clearly act and talk as if I am not saved.  In fact, according to Joseph Smith himself, the beliefs of traditional Christianity are an “abomination” to God the Father.  The language of apostacy is used for guys like me.

Again, I don’t have a problem with that per se, it’s just that it’s odd to call someone from another denomination an “apostate.”

When I brought this up, both Mormons I talked with said the same thing: evangelical Christians have some of the truth, but the LDS church has the “full” gospel.  If I become a Mormon, I am embracing everything that Christ taught.  This is a very common response among LDS missionaries as well.

While they might be genuine in that response, it doesn’t work for one very large reason: when you compare core Mormon doctrine with what is in the Bible, you find some glaring differences, just like you find when you compare Islam with what is taught in the Bible.

The LDS church disagrees with traditional Christianity in who God is (more here), the number of gods, the nature of His relationship to us, who Jesus is (spirit bro of Satan), how one can be saved, the plan of salvation, and original sin.  Mormons embrace doctrines such as exaltation.  That just scratches the surface of differences.

Those are no small differences.

If I become a Mormon, I would not be embracing the “fullness” of the gospel; I am embracing another faith alltogether. It is clear that we’re talking about two separate religions here, and since they contradict each other (either Jesus is or is not a spirit brother of Satan, not both.  Either God has a body of flesh and bones, or He doesn’t, not both.), both can’t be true.

This does not mean that Mormonism is false.  That is a separate question.  I just don’t see why admitting that Mormonism and Christianity are two different faiths is so controversial.

Though the two I talked with this week weren’t offended, many times Mormons get a bit antsy when you suggest that their faith isn’t Christian.  This is just so strange to me.  After all, no Muslim gets offended when you suggest that Christianity and Islam are two different faiths, and that both can’t be true.  My hunch is that, with the LDS missionaries in particular, they are happy to treat me as an apostate when it suits their evangelical purpose, and happy to treat me as a brother when it happens to suit their evangelical purpose.

Mormons would be doing themselves a favor as far as their credibility is concerned if they just owned up to the wide gulf between the two religions.

There are similarities, but it’s the differences that matter more.  After all, to paraphrase Greg Koukl, sure, aspirin and arsenic are both white and come in tablet form, but one would do well to pay attention to the differences when deciding which pill one should take for a headache.

News

I’ve been in Riverside, CA, helping out at a wrestling camp the past week, so I have been unable to be at my computer, responding to comments.  Thanks to all who have stopped by while I’ve been away (I put posts in the bull pen to come out every day in my absence).  We are now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Why do so Many People Reject Jesus?

Greg Koukl answers

Military Research

Surviving the World is a very witty blog.  Every day, they have a different “lesson.”  Some of their posts are, I think, hopelessly off base, but I still admire their wit.

I got a kick out of this one, titled “Lesson 369: Military Research”–

Lesson369

Something makes me think PETA would not be amused…but I laughed.